Daily Driving a W8

"Will with a W8 races an E30" (hi-im-will) 04/29/2015 at 10:00 • Filed to: German Engineering, Wagon Wednesday, W8, W8 Passat, Passat, Volkswagen, opporeviews

112

100

There are lots of stereotypes about Volkswagens, and German engineering in general - some more true than others. The last 2 years of W8 ownership have given me a bit of a new perspective on all of them.

For those who don’t know, for a a few years in the early 2000’s, VW built the jalop dream car. 8 Cylinders, fully mechanical rear biased AWD, and an available manual transmission wrapped in an inconspicuous station wagon body and sitting on an Audi chassis. The car was powerful (for its time), and flew completely under the radar. The engine layout - essentially 2 VR4s sharing a split-pin crankshaft - just added to the jalop credentials.

I bought a used 2003 VW Passat W8 wagon with 123000 miles on it in January 2013, fully expecting the engine block to be a wine rack within 6 months. After 2 years of (relatively) trouble free driving, road trips, and snow drifts, I’ve come to the following conclusions about German car stereotypes:

Stereotype #1: The Reliability of German Engineering

Yeah, about that.....

The first harsh winter I had the car, I learned an important lesson in B5.5 platform PCV valves. On short trips, small amounts of condensation will form in crankcase. Normally, this is not a problem, and the condensation will evaporate on the next moderately long drive. In winter, this condensation can accumulate - slowly freezing layer by layer, trip by trip, until the crankcase ventilation system freezes shut. When this happens, the crankcase finds a new way to ventilate itself. This can manifest itself as leaky valve cover gaskets, or as a geyser of hot oil out the dipstick tube, over the fender, and onto the snowy Taco Bell parking lot. Calling a friend to deliver 3 quarts of oil in the middle of the night will ensure that you take the crankcase ventilation system more seriously in the future.

Surprisingly, in 2 years of W8 Passat ownership, I have not had any W8 specific failures. Most of the issues have been boring things, like leaky rear wiper modules ($45 for a junkyard), frozen PCV valves, an alternator (generator for the pedants), and disobedient rain sensing wipers. The engine itself has been a trooper, requiring only basic maintenance. Compared to the mostly Japanese cars I have owned in the past, the individual components on the Passat are relatively well built and reliable. Things as simple as fasteners are engineered to an almost frustrating degree, with the size, pitch, head type, and specific coating optimized for each application to a far higher level than anything else I have ever worked on. Each individual basic component is a lesson in mechanical engineering, but there are thousands of them, which leads me to my next point...

Stereotype #2: The Complexity of German Engineering

Take a look at that picture above. There are 4 different types of valve. Long and short versions for both intake and exhaust. The engine has 2 balance shafts, 2 belts, and 3 timing chains. The dimensions are the same as a Ford 289, but sideways - the W8 is as wide as the 289 is long, and shorter than the 289 is wide. To account for the extra vibration induced by moving away from a 90 degree V, VW used a split pin crank, balance shafts, and variable stiffness vacuum actuated hydraulic motor mounts. And they didn’t stop there - because of various package restrictions, combustion inefficiencies from the engine layout, and the brilliance of German engineering, you will find the following under the hood:

Secondary air pump

Remote oil-water heat exchanger

Water cooled alternator

10 Quart , 2 piece oil pan

Centrifugal air-oil separator

Auxiliary vacuum pump

The 3rd heaviest battery ever installed in a passenger car, mounted under the middle of the windshield.

As I stated above, all of these individual components are very well designed. Even for the more unusual ones, their individual existences will not be a surprise to anybody familiar with German luxury cars. The problem is the sheer number of them. The individual parts may be just as reliable as their Japanese equivalents - but with twice as many, the car is twice as likely to fail.

Stereotype #3: The Cost of German Engineering

Parts for the W8 tend to be incredibly specific. For example, only the OEM VW wiper blade will work correctly with the Passat’s windshield. No Bosch Icon, Rain-X, or anything else will conform or wipe satisfactorily. VW is just a special snowflake that way.

That flow chart at the top of the article is not inaccurate, assuming you pay a shop to do your work for you (although I surprisingly never had to use the engine hoist). The RockAuto price for that water cooled alternator mentioned earlier is $654.79. Being water cooled, replacing the alternator requires draining the coolant - VW G12, available at your local VW/Audi dealer for $25/gallon. That remote oil-water heat exchanger has to come out for access, necessitating an oil change. 10 Quarts of Mobil1 Synthetic and a filter is only $80 if you can find them on sale. By the time you’re done, that new alternator costs nearly $800 in parts alone. Luckily tires are relatively cheap (225/45R17), but anything powertrain related is certainly not.

Stereotype #4: German Electronics are Terrible

Lucas died and was reincarnated as Bosch. I don’t care if the timelines don’t make sense. Turning it off and turning it on again usually fixes the problem, at least temporarily. The only exception to this is the rain sensing wipers, which do as they please, weather be damned.

Stereotype #5: German Cars are Difficult to Work On

Not so much difficult, but may require a few extra steps. For example, you probably will not strip any bolts, but you may need to remove most of the front of the vehicle for basic maintenance. VW calls this “Service Position.” With practice, a complete ratchet set (including torx, hex, and allen bits - remember the over-engineering), and a small electric impact driver, one can generally assume the position in ~30 minutes. Every part is serviceable, you just may have to disassemble the car to the state it was in when that particular part was installed at the factory.

Stereotype #6: The Joy of German Engineering

Fun Fact: There is no beauty cover on a W8. When you open the hood, there is nothing but intake manifold there to greet you.

Where else can you get 270hp, 300ft-lbs, 8 cylinders, 5 doors, 4 driven wheels, 1 torsen differential, heated mirrors, and Bose audio in one inconspicuous package? I have only encountered 3 people on the road who recognized this car - one was driving another W8, the other two were driving B5.5 Passats. You get all the speed, power, and comfort of a German luxury car, without drawing any attention at all. You get all of the snow-drifting, all weather capability of Audi quattro, without the badge snobbery. You get a luxury cruiser that can handle, haul ass, and then haul itself back down, all with great composure. You get a workhorse that can cross the country without skipping a beat, with space for a twin mattress in the back. Let me list all the things this car has been for me:

Daily Driver

Cross Country Cruiser

Track Support Car

Track Driving Car (tried it, can be done, don’t recommend)

Winter Beater

Snow Drift Machine

Canyon Carver

Luxury Car

Butt Warmer

Lumber Hauler

Date Night Beauty

Sleeping Space

Bedroom Space

Cars and Coffee Conversation Starter

Best Car I’ve Ever Owned

By no means is this a car for the mechanically timid, but if you’re willing to keep up on the maintenance, I can’t think of a better all around car. Now go out and find one of your own.

(all pictures mine unless labeled)

For Sweden > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 10:08

43

water cooled alternator

wut

Will with a W8 races an E30 > For Sweden 04/29/2015 at 10:12

24

BKRM3 > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 10:21

9

Great read. No reason to be scared of (most) German cars if you have a little ability. I’m learning this firsthand at the moment. I’ve owned BMWs for years but never done much “real” wrenching until recently, when a friend and I decided it was a great idea to buy a high mile E46 330i and build a race car. I’ve been having a blast and we haven’t ruined anything yet. It’s amazing what you can do with a Bentley manual and some confidence.

Fun story: my mom had a Passat W8 sedan (automatic) back when they were new and one snowy day we found ourselves at a local Staples early in the morning when the parking lot had not been cleared. I wanted to see how controllable the car was with that amazing AWD system so I turned DSC off and did a couple wide, sweeping drifts. That went well of course and my mom is a pretty good sport (for a while) but things got dangerous when I transitioned into tighter AWD donuts. The car worked perfectly, of course, but my mom had had enough and started punching me in the arm. Tough to drive when someone’s punching you in the arm. I vowed to take the car back there myself and have more fun on a future occasion but never did. I did, however, take the same car down a drag strip once. Man did it get murdered by a WS 6. =)

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 10:24

0

There’s nothing quite like the sound of a W8 though.. part V8 part I5. Amazing.

Will with a W8 races an E30 > BKRM3 04/29/2015 at 10:27

2

Great story, wintertime is my favorite with the car. Incredibly easy to drive sideways. Probably out launch anything, them fall flat on the long second gear...

BKRM3 > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 10:33

0

That was exactly what happened at the drag strip. Second was a total letdown. Way too tall. What were they thinking?!

RockThrillz89 > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 10:34

45

As for German engineering, my dad (who used to work at a German company, and often had to work with visiting Germans) has always said that Germans can do amazing things... on paper. Where they falter is when it comes to implementing these things they create properly. And that usually translates to overly complex things that could have been accomplished by much simpler means.

Nice write up. Very interesting.

WhiskeyGolf > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 10:35

0

Great writeup. I think Jagvar has mentioned much of the same in his recap of Phaeton ownership: very rewarding, provided you’re willing/able to make the maintenance investment.

edu-petrolhead > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 10:36

3

Is the turbo encabulator oil or water cooled?

Will with a W8 races an E30 > BKRM3 04/29/2015 at 10:39

4

Its a nice surprise when it downshifts to 2nd for a pass on the highway?

BKRM3 > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 10:41

0

Hahahahaha yes, that must be it!

Hahayoustupidludditeshutupandgohandcrankyourmodeltalready > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 10:46

1

“The 3rd heaviest battery ever installed in a passenger car, mounted under the middle of the windshield.”

What are the higher two?

Will with a W8 races an E30 > Hahayoustupidludditeshutupandgohandcrankyourmodeltalready 04/29/2015 at 10:49

3

Group 65 and Group 79. No idea what they are installed in.

For Sweden > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:02

23

Please tag as NSFL

Will with a W8 races an E30 > For Sweden 04/29/2015 at 11:04

0

Have a list:

Kinja’d, so link:

http://www.industrialbearings.com.au/uploads/catalo…

For Sweden > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:13

13

Germany you crazy

Chatham Harrison dba SPANFELLER DELENDUS EST > RockThrillz89 04/29/2015 at 11:23

4

So you’re saying that the defense industry was taken over by Germans?

rudyH > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:25

0

http://www.vicorpower.com/documents/qual…

PS9 > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:27

1

Why...why would they do this...I don’t understand...

drdude > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:27

2

Trucks.

rudyH > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:28

0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W_engine

SWITAWI > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:29

1

“... Surprisingly, in 2 years of W8 Passat ownership, I have not had any W8 specific failures. ”

“... Lucas died and was reincarnated as Bosch. ”

God, yes. The ONE part of my GTI VR6 that never let me down in almost 200k miles of driving was that torquey 12V VR6 engine. And the bane of the VR6’s existence was the damnable coil pack.

Still miss that car for completely irrational reasons, lol.

GruvDesign > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:29

0

- You mentioned perspective, and I hate isometric view.

- Where else can you get 270hp, 300ft-lbs, 5 cylinders, 5 doors, 4 driven wheels, 1 torsen differential, heated mirrors, and Bose audio in one inconspicuous package?

This:

SteveFB91 > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:29

0

GROSS

TheCrudMan > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:30

8

German engineers think like this: “we made the car 15% better by adding 3,500 parts!”

Japanese engineers think like this: “we removed 3,500 parts and it only made the car 15% worse!”

It doesn’t matter what American engineers think because American accountants think like this: “Let’s remove 3,500 parts, not engineer around it, and then charge 15% more!”

jimz > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:30

0

alternator (generator for the pedants),

no, alternator is the correct term because it creates polyphase AC which is later rectified into DC. Which means that those things at power plants are technically alternators, even though colloquially everyone calls them generators.

Things as simple as fasteners are engineered to an almost frustrating degree, with the size, pitch, head type, and specific coating optimized for each application to a far higher level than anything else I have ever worked on.

I’m curious how you determined that.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:30

0

But the cutaways of the engine make it all worth it. It is really cool to look at. Also, a water-cooled alternator?

dustynnguyendood > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:31

0

“Move the lock carrier to the service position”

*shivers uncontrollably, curls into the fetal position*

OttoFalcon > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:31

3

65 are installed in most fords, f-150, 250’s, Expeditions, Explorers and Crown Vics.

jimz > PS9 04/29/2015 at 11:31

1

probably because the packaging in the car was so tight the alternator (actually the rectifier stack) couldn’t be air cooled. 99% of the time, when an alternator dies it’s a heat-related failure.

Ash78, voting early and often > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:32

27

15 consecutive years with the B5 here and I can vouch for most of this excellent post. My current ride is the little brother of the W8, a V6 4motion wagon with Tiptronic.

You can’t escape that the AWD wagon versions of these cars tip the scales at 3,800-4,000#, but the power sure helps.

And every day that I set foot in our new Honda Odyssey, I’m amazed how much nicer a 15-year-old VW is in the realm of design, construction, fit/finish, and basically everything else. Our old Passat makes our new Odyssey look like it was built by Saturn in the early 2000s. No exaggeration.

MisterToo > For Sweden 04/29/2015 at 11:32

0

bmw does it too.

jimz > RockThrillz89 04/29/2015 at 11:33

10

German engineering: “Why use one moving part when you can use 12?”

Speedster > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:34

0

I'm pretty bad at flow charts, but I think the question "Am I a VW Mechanic" should be at the top of the decision tree. I've had numerous VW's with bad sensors, expensive fluids, etc but I also worked on my own VWs and could buy the parts cheaper online. But once you have a shop do your work and you are subjected to their parts markups, its better to get the boring Toyota

greencow > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:34

0

After owning and driving cars from American, to European, to Japanese, I’ll gladly keep my little Japanese sedan. Turbo I4, AWD, 6 speed, everything I want, parts are surprisingly cheap, and the car has been one of the most reliable vehicles I’ve ever had.

Although, every time I see a older BMW for sale, the temptation grows a little stronger. Especially for the E30’s.....

SquirrelyWrath > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:35

0

I personally like boxers for unconventional cylinder arrangement. That W looks like a nightmare to work on.

BlandonNimrat > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:35

5

Good on ya! Enjoyed the article.

I met a really fun loving older lady up in Lake County, CA (north of the Bay) with a W8 wagon (stick) who had bought it on a whim and over three years had almost no trouble with it. I traded her a drive in my B5 S4 Wagon. I loved the W8. Both have such great power bands, but there is something so wonderful about the NA grunt in the W8. And the sound, even with the stock mufflers at full tilt it sounds wonderful.

Oran J Sands III > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:36

3

fully expecting the engine block to be a wine rack within 6 months.

Been there, done that.

Viperfan1 > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:37

0

It is often said that a normal vehicle has about 10,000 individual parts. If only 0.01% of those parts fail, that is still 10 parts.

If we take into account that German cars are more complex and have more parts, and some of those more complex parts aren’t always as reliable, it’s easy to see where the stigma comes from. Not to say that the cars are not well built, but overengineering sometimes does have its drawbacks..

Nontheless, I can’t wait to have my next car be a 335xi manual coupe or a B8 S4, but you can be sure I’ll get it with a warranty.

macanamera > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:37

1

Wa...water cooled alternator?

macanamera > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:38

1

what in the actual fuck

sklooner > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:38

0

The engine reminds me of the kommandogerat, wonderful wwii device that controlled fuel flow, mixture strength, propeller pitch setting and ignition timing it also cut in a second stage of the supercharger at the correct altitude and was hydromechanical

RockThrillz89 > jimz 04/29/2015 at 11:38

0

Because more points of failure does not mean more problems; it means more solutions!

pwthornton > RockThrillz89 04/29/2015 at 11:38

2

Germans seem to be good at making stuff that works well when it works but that is often overly complex and prone to breaking.

Really good engineering strives to make complex problems as simple as possible.

jimz > Chatham Harrison dba SPANFELLER DELENDUS EST 04/29/2015 at 11:38

2

I think the defense sector suffers from “scope creep” more than engineering issues.

RexSeven > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:38

0

I hate pretty much ALL rain sensing wipers. They never work like I want them to. Too fast, too slow, not at all. I hate them. Give me the old fashioned intermittent wipers please.

Junker_CM > For Sweden 04/29/2015 at 11:39

0

WATER COOLED ALTERNATOR!

Goose > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:39

0

I had a B5.5 wagon with the 1.8t. Broke and in college be damned, I wanted to spend more time and money on car and get a W8, luckily I never found a wagon with a stick in my area.

AttilaTheStig > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:41

0

The flowchart is missing, “Do you own VCDS?” http://www.ross-tech.com/products.html

jimz > RockThrillz89 04/29/2015 at 11:41

0

Horst, you are a genius!

meatatarian > BKRM3 04/29/2015 at 11:41

2

E36 and E46 BMWs are way easier to work on than VWs/Audis of similar vintage. Trust me.

CammedCTSV > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:41

1

As a 1st gen CTS-V owner, my maintenance consists of oil changes requiring a 13mm an a filter socket.

Der Sportwagoner > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:43

0

Should You Buy a Passat? It’s a trap...

jncastillo87 > For Sweden 04/29/2015 at 11:44

0

My exact thoughts

TheSmokingTire > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:46

2

One of the guys we filmed with at the track in New Zealand, the one with the drifty Trueno, towed it with a Passat W8 wagon. Brave man.

upstairs > For Sweden 04/29/2015 at 11:46

1

Had to visit Urban Dictionary for that one. I agree.

alan > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:47

0

wow! those are big heads!

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:47

0

I wish I could find a photo of the radiator baffle for an E36 BMW. A radiator baffle is a piece of plastic that ensures that the air flowing through all the grilles and openings on the front of car get directed through the radiator. That’s it. That’s it’s job.

Oh no no no! Not to the Germans.

Little moving dohickies and flaps that are weighted to be closed at rest, but open up at speed and fins and fences and shapes...

yung bramblepelt > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:47

5

Pretty sure that’s a turbo, bro

FauxhemianRhapshody > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:47

0

Fantastic write-up. Best flow chart I've ever seen on VW purchase, and includes almost every major issue - except emission control systems and the front control arm nightmare.

I own a '00 V6 AWD. Which, come to find out, also has a rear timing chain.

55_mercury > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:49

10

Its not just cars... My hobby is in restoring vintage radios, stereos, amps, sound equipment and phonographs from the 30’s-60’s. I work on primarily American sets as they are the most common but to a smaller extent German, Japanese and even a few oddball French and Italian sets. The American sets ( except for Philco) are mostly designed in a very straightforward way, use fairly rugged construction, and use commonly available components. The schematics are easy to read and faithfully follow international symbols and codes and they are usually easy to work on with most components within easy reach. For the most part they work perfectly fine. Some of the vintage American 50’s and 60’s tube amps are highly prized today.

On the other hand... the German sets. When they work they work amazingly well. The table radio sets are hands down excellent machines. Like mentioned with this car, every little piece seems to have been designed extremely well. But hardly ANY of the German sets I’ve worked on were designed to be serviceable. Internal circuits are built in layers with components buried under masses of wires and other parts. Some parts are simply “Un-obtanium” as many were designed ONLY for that set. Some of the schematics are difficult to read and use unconventional symbols. Lastly even if the set is fully restored they usually need constant attention.

Here’s the bottom line: there is beauty in simplicity. If the same performance can be had with fewer parts and less fidgety engineering then why not do it that way? The comment about the water cooled alternator sounds like a classic flaw in over-engineering: trying to solve a problem that does not exist and in turn creating a scenario for even greater problems than existed.

alan > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:49

0

water cooled alternator? thats crazy!

always admired the w8 wagons, thought they were interesting. never thought they were so complex

Yes, I like Jukes > For Sweden 04/29/2015 at 11:50

0

If I remember correctly, water and electrical components do NOT get along with eachother.

Pending Approval > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:50

0

don’t forget, if you reach up under the dash on a b5.5 you can magically ‘fix’ the CEL so that it never comes on again!

Mox > RockThrillz89 04/29/2015 at 11:51

3

This reminds me of the WWII stories regarding German tanks: Engineering marvels and technological superior but the moment they hit the Russian battlefields and encountered up to minus 40 degrees Celsius temperatures without the logistics and constant influx of spare parts to keep them running, those tanks just often came to a grinding halt.

The russian tanks, engineered for simplicity and cost-efficiency not surprisingly fared fairly well in comparison (at least until they took a hit from a shell or Panzerfaust)

Simplified, I know - but illustrates the point: German engineering is excellent as long as you have the (slightly specialized) skills, tools and parts to keep things running.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:51

2

Congrats on the front page! OppoBlog effect... =)

55_mercury > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:51

0

That’s about the dumbest thing I’ve seen. I mean- look at it. 50% more components than needed for something that doesn’t need to be water cooled to start with. That’s just asking for problems.

Quade > RockThrillz89 04/29/2015 at 11:51

2

Working on BMW, I find the designs to be decent, let down by poor parts quality. Things like bushings for instance are made of bubble gum instead of rubber. It’s why BMW suspensions need to be rebuilt every 100K miles.

Like the article states the bolts are very nice. Nicer than Japanese bolts (which are just strong enough for the job but no stronger).

Maxxuman > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:52

0

“The 3rd heaviest battery ever installed in a passenger car, mounted under the middle of the windshield.”

Wow, that battery must be fun to replace, mounted where it is!

DerMitDemWolfTanzt > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:52

0

Just make sure you wrench set is metric, and not some “I have to do math first”-wrench package... 9/32, equals what? No, that won’t fit... Scheisse!

Gott zum Grusse,

ein deutscher Staatsbuerger mit Green Card

Pending Approval > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:54

1

former b5.5 owner here, this is just a story about a guy who really loves his car, despite it being a shit car that cost and arm and a leg to maintain, and a sacrificial amount of blood if you plan on working on it yourself.

I get you man, I miss my old car, took it to 400k miles, but its still a car with more issues than time magazine.

Will with a W8 races an E30 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/29/2015 at 11:54

0

Thanks! :)

marcoaml78 > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:55

0

“but you may need to remove most of the front of the vehicle for basic maintenance. “

i laughed at this...reaching the serpentine belt of an audi a4 requires removing the entire front, even the radiator. oh the joy.

Duck > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:56

0

My brother had a B5.5 Passat wagon. He lusted over the AWD W8. We spotted a W8 one day and he insisted we looked at it. Looked pretty much the same as his, to me. But then he pointed out the different headlights.

Hoosier in Sodak > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:56

4

group 65 run two of them in my f350 powerstroke...

Remember dialing "popcorn" for the time? > SWITAWI 04/29/2015 at 11:57

1

Yep. Have a 1996 VR6 GTi. My son replaced the coil packs years ago with Mallory (I think) and there’s been no trouble since. Combine that with the cam, chip, and cat-back exhaust, and you have one of the best sounding cars I’ve driven on acceleration.

Pending Approval > Maxxuman 04/29/2015 at 11:58

0

its actually not so bad, you just have to remove a plastic tray thing to get to it.

Juan > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:58

0

This brings me good memories.

I love wrenching in German cars, sure they are complex, and have a way of coming apart, and a different way of assembly. This drives some people crazy, it is not a SBC that you can take apart with a set of tools from the gas station. But when done properly, the sense of everything fitting where it should, is great.

DittoBox > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 11:59

0

“Buy a Mazda instead.”

There. Fixed that for you.

tw8t1 > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 12:02

5

My first job as a Tech was with VW, I started in 2003. We only ended up with 2 W8’s in the 4 years I was there. One was a sedan with a 6 speed, and one was a wagon with an automatic. The 6 speed sedan was bought by a woman. We all couldn’t believe it either.

They were definitely awesome cars and more rare than the TDI Passats at the time.

E_V > Mox 04/29/2015 at 12:03

0

There was also the minor fact that if you used slave labour, you understandably got a shitty end product.

Maxxuman > Pending Approval 04/29/2015 at 12:04

0

But it seems like such an awkward position to have to lift a heavy battery from.

Fancy Fancy Audi Parts > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 12:04

11

I’ve always come down to one conclusion when it comes to German cars and engineering. It’s worth it. It might not be to some but to me it is. The stigma that VW’s and Audi’s are plauged with electrical problems is puzzling. I own a B5 Audi A4 and the only electrical problem I had with it in a year of owning it was replacing the factory alternator. Big deal. It’s just been basic maintenance during my ownership and no different than the Hondas I’ve owned in the past. Are they complicated? Sure, newer VAG products can be in certain aspects. Is mine? No. By the way, every single car should have a service position like VW/Audi. I can disassemble my front in 10 minutes and have all the room in the world for maintainece such as a timing belt. Do I question their engineering? Sometimes, yes I do but again, I’ve run into engineering wtf’s plenty of times with other manufacturers before so it’s not just a German thing. Is it reliable? Absolutely. It really comes down to how well previous owners took care of it. I picked mine because it was meticulously maintained. If you’re willing to put the time, patience, and money into a German car, then it’s well worth the reward.

bimmerbenz1 > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 12:07

0

Thank you for this piece.

Stephen > For Sweden 04/29/2015 at 12:07

0

A number of V8 BMWs from the early 2000’s also had water cooled alternators. The X5 4.4, 540i, 740i. Not sure if there were others.

mmm89 > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 12:07

0

Group 65 is in most late model Fords, Lincolns and Mercurys and is definitely large and heavy. The Mercedes Benz batteries like the group 91s are huge and heavy too.

Union of Smog Techs of CA > Ash78, voting early and often 04/29/2015 at 12:07

4

I think Honda and Toyota hired a lot of ex Saturn people, or are on drugs. Getting in a low mileage 90s Accord with a clean brown and black interior makes me cry now.

ChrisMPower > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 12:08

0

When I bought my first E39, I think just about everyone I knew at the time asked me why I would drive something so unreliable and expensive to fix. Most of my “mechanic” friends (re: works for jiffylube) told me that it would be toast within 6 months, all because it was a BMW.

In 3 years of owning it, I replaced two coil packs, spark-plugs, the starter, and the valve cover gaskets. It cost less than $1,000 in parts and labor, and I did exactly 0% of the work myself. Stereotyping is stupid, and only done by people who don’t know what they are talking about.

Pending Approval > Maxxuman 04/29/2015 at 12:09

1

I never said it made sense.

Highfade33 > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 12:10

0

Awesome flow chart

Treemendous > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 12:13

0

Great post. Thank you.

GrauGeist > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 12:15

0

I’m assuming Tav stops here - it’s not like reliability or cost matters to him...

screaminghairyarmadillos > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 12:15

1

Nope, that’s the turbo.

takeshi72 > For Sweden 04/29/2015 at 12:17

0

That was my thought. It sounds like a short circuit waiting to happen.

TheApeWithNoNAme > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 12:18

1

I drive a VR6 power 2003 Eurovan. 180K miles into its life, the power steering hardline came off and puked. This took the pump with. $500 later it was all back together, but, this being a German car, you have to not just prime the pump, but REPRESSURIZE the whole fucking steering rack. This took as long to figure out as the repair. Still, when the serpentine let go as the pump broke the engine continued to run to get me to a place to stop and assess the fuckery. Didn’t even overheat.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > Ash78, voting early and often 04/29/2015 at 12:20

1

I owned a similar V6 Passat wagon (05), and I loved everything about it except the feeling that the car may leave me stranded without any warning. Super nice interior, though.

MrDakka > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 12:21

0

I wish

Herr Quattro - Has a 4-Motion > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 12:21

0

I’m going to drop a W12 into a B5.5, logic and money can go to hell.

TisforTriumphTR6 > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 12:21

2

Tan interior? Always loved that combo with the Colorado red.

Saving4F80 > Will with a W8 races an E30 04/29/2015 at 12:22

0

VWs are German cars the way Florida is one of the United States of America. Techically they are but at the same time huge embarrassments for their nation